The Charles Echols Rhythm Kings 1932.

Bo Scherman suggests the following:

According to Albert McCarthy´s "Big Band Jazz" the The Charles Echols Rhythm Kings had the following  lineup 1932.

Charlie Echols, Milton Ellsworth (tp)

Parker Berry, Kid Ory (tb)

Grover Diggs, Herschel Coleman, Hubert "Bumps" Myers (saxophones)

Eddie Beal (piano)

Joe Lewis (guitar)

Joe Mendosa (bass)

Preston "Peppy" Prince (dm).

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Christopher Tyle writes: I've been going through the impressive online archive at the University of Missouri of Buck Clayton's photos.This photo caught my attention. It is labeled "The Charles Echols Rhythm Kings”.

What should grab the attention of jazz fans is the trombonist second from left: none other than Edward "Kid" Ory.

(Photo: The archive at the University of Missouri. Buck Clayton collection).

The suggestion that the photograph was take on a steamer seems not to be absolutely true. The following arguments have been put forward:

My other purpose in writing is about the well-known 1932 Charles Echols Rhythm Kings photo with Kid Ory in the line-up. 

I have a copy of this one and was very surprised to see the reference to this having been taken aboard the Streckfus paddle-steamer 'J.S.'.  Can this be true? 

The entire personnel was LA-based and I can find no record of this full band transferring down to St Louis or New Orleans to undertake a season on the 'J.S.'  which presumably was head-quarted somewhere on the Mississippi. They would have had to transfer to another Local of the AFM.  

There is no evidence I am aware of that would give any credence to Ory playing the JS or even traveling at all in this period outside of California.

He mentioned every other trip and detail of his career and I can't imagine he would have failed to mention this.

I think if he played the JS we would have heard about it.

Just to recap, here's what Chilton says of the end of Ory's first career as a musician:

...with Leon Rene and Lucky Day, Emerson Scott's band, then Freddie Washington, then Charlie Echols before quitting to run so-called "Chicken Ranch" with brother.

There are a host of problems with this timeline least of all Chilton lists no sources. Further his telling of the Ory story says he left New Orleans because of medical advice and that he traveled to New York in 1939. Neither of these assertions are true. Nor is it true he left music to raise chickens with his brother in 1933. Johnny Ory didn't move to LA till 37 or 38 and died soon after. We have to start from the perspective that Chilton played fast and loose with information.

1. Ory makes clear that, except for a brief afternoon between trains in his 1959 train journey from LA to the east coast ( for his European tour )that passed through New Orleans, he did not return to the city between 1919 and 1971.

2. Charlie Echols was a central Los Angeles neighbor of Ory's (probably how they knew each other) The name of the band as I have seen was Echols Ebony Serenaders.

3.He was also playing in Freddie Washington's band around the same time and by 1933 was playing with Leon Rene in the show "Lucky Day," which he refers to in his autobiography as his last music job and he says they toured up and down "the coast" ending the show in San Francisco. In his autobiography, he says when he left Chicago in late 1929 he returned to Los Angeles to play with Mutt.

4. Ory hated touring, probably in part because of the disastrous King Oliver tour that took them from Chicago to St. Louis and on to New York where Ory left the band. He preferred  residencies at clubs over the road. Joe Glaser asked him to join the All-Stars three times and he refused-because he was aware of Armstrong's relentless touring. "They (ARMSTRONG ALL STARS) have to do all that traveling. That's one of the reasons I turned down the job with him." Ory to Feather 5/30/1964.

Even on his European tours he tended to base himself out of one city and travel to play gig and then came straight back to base city.

I could be wrong and I would be thrilled if there is evidence of such a trip.

Best to you,

John McCusker

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Hello Friends, I also found this information on the net. I agree with John: this kind of trip seems strange. 

I have  an original of this photograph of 1932. There is no indication about the place, surely California.

I do not know the source of the information about the J/S. I am writing the story of Fate Marable. What I found is that the other bands that played on the Streckfus boats that were not from N.O. or St. Louis (or Paducah) were mainly white bands that used to travel all around the States. But, as I alway say, these are only pieces of a big puzzles!

Greetings to all jazz colleagues, Dan Vernhettes

Le 3 mai 2015